Bullet format:
-It just took me a half hour to read through this stuff. It's too bad i actually have work to do at work today.
-It appears that my extra keeper proposition and the matsuzaka bidding thing have both lost steam. I'm withdrawing both of them. If everyone wanted to do it, i thought it would be cool, but I understand it would be lame to pass something by a majority vote this late in the game.
-I think the one thing everyone is missing regarding the trading of draft picks is that previously draft picks have only ever been traded for other draft picks (or coffees). A possible solution to our conflict might be saying that players are tradable (for other players) up until keepers are announced, then the keepers will be written onto the draft grid (as if they'd been drafted there) and all other players are released into the draft pool. After this occurs then owners are free to trade open draft slots for other open draft slots (not players) until the draft begins (or during the draft). This is a fairly clean solution to a sloppy problem.
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9 comments:
I don't really like MCard's proposal to solve the "problem" of trading picks for players - banning it - but it's a step up from denying that the problem exists (i'm looking at you, omar).
also:
"previously draft picks have only ever been traded for other draft picks"
given that this is the first draft that involves keepers, it was heretofore impossible to trade draft picks for anything but draft picks (or consumer goods).
i don't have a problem with trading players for picks if it happens after the keepers are written in the grid. then it will be easy for everyone to see which draft slots are open and tradable.
during the draft it was possible to trade drafted players for later picks, but it didn't happen. thank god omar didn't accept my reyes and a pick offer for halladay.
the problem does not exist. this is just global warming all over again.
but really, i disagree with the premise of your problem. and before you start, dont call me dick cheney again. i think your problem is one created because you dont agree that having a player draft in a certain round (i.e. david wright in the first) means that you are using your first round draft pick to keep david wright. if you no longer have him, you are no longer required to use your first round pick to keep him. the 'open' draft slot is what allows you to retain him. if you no longer have a pick to use in order to retain him, you no longer have him. You can't trade david wright's draft slot and keep him at the same time.
The issue of having two first round picks is a different issue all together and one created as a result of a compromise and as a way to allow people to trade 'freely'.
let's break this down:
"i think your problem is one created because you dont agree that having a player draft in a certain round (i.e. david wright in the first) means that you are using your first round draft pick to keep david wright."
no, i agree with that. or at least, i get to *continue* to possess the *rights* to david wright in year two by giving up my first round pick in year two.
"if you no longer have him, you are no longer required to use your first round pick to keep him."
sure.
"the 'open' draft slot is what allows you to retain him."
this does not follow from the earlier points, and represents the fundamental disagreement we have. in year one, i used my first round pick to buy the rights to david wright. under our system, i get to keep those rights for year two by giving up my first round pick in year two. the *rights* to wright are not the same as the draft pick. my question is, if i trade the draft pick, what do i have to do to keep the rights to david wright.
"if you no longer have a pick to use in order to retain him, you no longer have him."
disagree, for the reasons above.
"You can't trade david wright's draft slot and keep him at the same time."
i think you can, because david wright is separate from the draft pick
The issue of having two first round picks is a different issue all together and one created as a result of a compromise and as a way to allow people to trade 'freely'.
Carter said, "my question is, if i trade the draft pick, what do i have to do to keep the rights to david wright."
Nothing. You can't keep him. That's the point.
I really don't understand why you think that you should be able to do this. The whole idea behind keepers is that you have to keep them where you drafted them for the first yeat and then anyone you keep in sucessive years automatically occupies your highest available draft positions. Maybe that wasn't clearly spelled out but I thought it was pretty evident in how we constructed the whole thing.
No? Can someone else weight in here to make sure. I feel like Carter is trying to bind this up in backwards logic.
"You can't keep him. That's the point."
I get that that is you point, I just don't see how it follows from the rules that we created.
"I really don't understand why you think that you should be able to do this. The whole idea behind keepers is that you have to keep them where you drafted them for the first yeat and then anyone you keep in sucessive years automatically occupies your highest available draft positions."
I agree. But I'm not talking about keepers, I'm talking about trading draft picks. The initial trade of the draft pick, a priori, has nothing to do with keepers. Just like Mcard's initial trade for Ortiz had nothing to do with keepers, in the first instance. For both situations, the question is how do we deal with the ramifications of a transaction within the keeper system. My point is that, if MCard gets to slide down Ortiz because he doesn't have two first round picks, then by analogy I should get to slide down Wright if I don't have a first round pick.
Everyone seems to think that this involves "getting something for nothing." I see the point superficially, but its not true (or its at least no more true than for the Ortiz situation). Say i trade my first round pick for Oswalt, and am allowed to slide down Wright to round two and keep him. I have Oswalt and Wright. If I keep Wright and use my second round pick on Bay, I have Wright and Bay. I don't get an extra player. And I only get a player better than the one I could get in the second round if someone else voluntarily agrees to the trade.
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