never rat on your friends, and always keep your mouth shut

Wednesday, January 25, 2006

My prefs

I've got some sort of hardon for only "counting" stats.


Off: BB, R, K, TB, AVG (if we count walks, we don't need OBP; AVG is better there)

Def: K, Outs, TB, ER (not ERA), WHIP

2 rate stats, 2 neg stats, little duplication. Me encanta.

[Update:] I guess there is some duplication: K (for pitchers) is a subset of Outs. I like tracking outs, though. Maybe Ks are a particularly useful form of out? But not really. I dunno what to suggest. [Update2:] Perhaps this: Outs, TB, BB, H, ERA ? Or substitute in Ks for Outs.

[Update3:] This is in response to Ramó's hate. We didn't list preferences in order to stage a vote, as such, but rather to see where everyone is. As Pete has pointed out, simply taking the top five preferences might lead to something incomprehensible. I waited so that I could see what people liked, and see what the reasons were. Don't be like the GOP and cast an air of "inevitability" over 5x5, though I may have helped that by not being wordier in my defense of these stats. Simply put, I think these stats limit the external contributions of other players--as a complete package--more than other suggestions. I limited rate stats since I think I agree that because all stats are, effectively, ultimately rate stats, we don't need to add any more division. And, finally, by not having saves or steals, I think I've sussed out orthogonal stats, which no one likes. Why track SB instead of, say, E?

omar's response - first of all, taking the top 5 is NOT incomprehensible. Alot of people, in the end, wanted something similar to the classic 5x5. Like i said, I know that you want what you wrote, and I want what i wrote but in the end thats meaningless. We need to pick a winner so I tried to list the choices that I culled from reading everyone's preferences. If you dont like it you can choose as such. If a vote of no-confidence on my choices is called then so be it. But instead of just talking about what I want i decided to see what everyone wants.

Pete's response to omar's response to moacir's updates (ha ha)
well, technically, you decidd to see which of your editorializations everyone wants. i realize there's almost no way to pick the stats without someone actually getting what they want. what i want to avoid is getting what individual people specifically do NOT want. what i meant about "incomprehensible" is that the way we tallied up teh preferences only depicts individual stats as acceptable, not collections of 5 stats. this is already getting ornately silly/complicated. I voted above, which should help.

omar's response to pete's response... well you know
i agree but it has to start somewhere. now that we have everyones preference we need to move forward. and thats also why i included the option to note choose either (but still vote so we know if everyone voted). if it turns out my choices were bad then someone else come up with a better way. but at some point we need to get 'er done (i hate myself now).


pedrag said...

I like Moacir's stats. Most of my preference resides in how this scoring accurately values a pitcher who gives up a lot of total bases but not a lot of earned runs. Most systems either unfairly reward or punish that. Moacir's hitting I think is reasonable. Personally i'd like to have walks be counted twice (BB and OBP) but if we have to have AVG, i'd rather have AVG than H, because even chumps can have a lot of hits with ~700 AB. Now, I don't know if my enjoyment of moacir's stats is entirely academic, as some people seem to think that the horse race tally is final (I hope it isn't, but at the same time, i understand if it is). any thoughts?

Omar said...

not to be an ass, but how do these stats change anything? sure now we have everyones thoughts but then what? they dont fundamentally alter the current tally so its kinda like voting for nader.

are we going to just take the top 5? are we going to have votes (that are possibly binding)?

pedrag said...

omar, relax. just because more people have pedestrian tastes in stats doesn't mean you need to start slinging hate.

Omar said...

im trying to sling some finality around. if hate comes, then so be it. you're just mad because i zinged nader arent you?

pedrag said...

why would nader-hating bother me? I don't accept the finality of modernity. i don't know that another imprecise colleciton of polls is the answer, but that's what you went ahead and did.

Omar said...

the whole point is that its no imprecise. its not vague but specific. its a russian election.